Sadam: The Power of Hope | Sharing Stories Changing Lives
Join us as we shine a light on the struggles of the Uyghurs, exposing a deeply troubling narrative that demands attention, empathy, and a call for change.
Dive Deeper: The Full Conversation with Sadam
The Core Story
In this powerful episode of Sharing Stories Changing Lives, we delve into the heart breaking plight of the Uyghur community, as they face unimaginable challenges in the remote corners of North Western China. Unveiling the stark reality of their forced confinement, we explore the haunting echoes of a modern-day tragedy, where people are cornered into what can only be described as a concentration camp. Join us as we shine a light on the struggles of the Uyghurs, exposing a deeply troubling narrative that demands attention, empathy, and a call for change.
For one Uyghur, Sadam, who is an Australian citizen and an army of people, including Michael Bradley, a human rights lawyer from Marque Lawyers, Susan Barton, MTA travel, Sarah who first tries to help Sadam, and journalist Sophie McNeil—the people Sadam refers to as his angels—embark on what can only be described as an effort beyond tireless determination to free Sadam’s wife and firstborn child safely to Australia. Together, they weave a story of resilience, compassion, and a relentless pursuit of justice in the face of an overwhelming challenge.
The Uyghur Context: What is Happening in Xinjiang?
To understand Sadam’s struggle, one must understand the environment in Western China. Michael Bradley provides a sobering overview of the region:
Cultural Identity: The Uyghur people are Turkic-speaking Muslims, culturally and ethnically distinct from the Han Chinese majority.
The Surveillance State: Xinjiang has become one of the most monitored regions on Earth, with checkpoints, facial recognition, and the confiscation of passports.
The Detention Crisis: Since 2017, it is estimated that over 1,000,000 Uyghurs have been detained in "retraining" camps.
Meet the "Angels" of the Mission
Sadam identifies four key individuals who acted as catalysts for his family's freedom:
Sarah Ruby: The first "angel" who refused to let Sadam lose hope and introduced him to the legal and media world.
Michael Bradley: The human rights lawyer who turned a "hopeless" case into a landmark legal and political victory.
Sophie McNeill: The award-winning journalist whose Four Corners documentary forced the world (and the Australian government) to look.
Susan Barton: The travel logistics expert who navigated the impossible maze of COVID-19 border closures to find a "back door" through Papua New Guinea.
Time-Stamped Breakthrough Moments
[00:15:30] – The Surveillance Reality: Sadam describes the shock of returning to his homeland in 2015 to find police checking his phone apps and friends too terrified to speak.
[00:22:00] – The Birth of Lutfi: Nadila’s return to China for her son's birth, only to have her passport seized as the state repression ramped up.
[00:29:45] – The Legal Hook: How Michael Bradley successfully fought for baby Lutfi’s Australian citizenship, giving the government a formal reason to intervene.
[00:38:15] – The PNG Route: Sue Barton explains the nail-biting logistics of flying a Uyghur mother and child through Papua New Guinea during the height of global travel bans.
[00:45:00] – Meeting at Age Three: Sadam recounts the paralyzing nerves of meeting his son for the very first time in a Sydney airport.
[00:52:10] – Life Today: An update on the family, which has now grown to include three healthy boys living safely in Australia.
Full Episode Transcript
I would like to acknowledge the Guringai people and pay my respects to Elders past and present. The Guringai people are the traditional owners of the land where we meet today.
Episode Opening
Welcome to Sharing Stories, Changing Lives and to an episode I’ve called “The Power of Hope,” a phrase taken from a line in the book Freeing My Family, written by Sadam Abdusalam, who just wanted to be reunited with his family, and Michael Bradley, a human rights lawyer at Marque Lawyers, who played an integral role in making that happen.
Also with me today is Susan (Sue) Barton from MTA Travel, one of the many people who put their skills into overdrive to make this reunion possible.
Podcast Intro
Welcome to Sharing Stories, Changing Lives.
The host, Karen Sander, has the privilege of interviewing individuals from all walks of life, each with their own powerful and inspiring stories. The guests share their life experiences and, in doing so, they celebrate the transformative magic of storytelling.
To learn more, visit www.storyroomglobal.com and explore the private membership area, The Backstage Pass.
Setting the Theme
Karen:
Hope is a complex concept — it involves optimism, faith, motivation, resilience and anticipation. And from reading Freeing My Family, I know that hope was the driving force.
Welcome, Sadam, Michael Bradley and Susan Barton to this episode of Sharing Stories, Changing Lives.
All:
Thank you. / Thank you very much.
Karen:
There was actually an army of people involved in bringing this together — not just you three. Michael, your office and staff… so many people came together to make sure that Nadila, your wife, Sadam, and your child Lutfi (often called Lofty), could come to Australia and be reunited with you.
Understanding the Uyghur Story
Karen:
Michael, I’d like to start with you. The Uyghurs are from a remote part of China. Can you help us understand where this region is, how many people live there, and how they came to be there?
Michael:
If you look at a map of China and go as far west as you possibly can — right out where China borders Central Asia — that’s the region we’re talking about. It’s a long way from Beijing, a long way from the coast.
Politically, it has been part of China for hundreds of years, but ethnically, culturally, and religiously, it’s quite distinct. The majority of the population in what’s now called Xinjiang province are Uyghur people.
Uyghurs have very little in common with the Han Chinese majority. They’re Central Asian in origin, the vast majority are Muslim, they speak a Turkic language, they have different cultural practices and no real shared history with the Han Chinese population.
They’ve essentially been an occupied people for a long time, and have never truly had independent status. Their more recent history, particularly from the 1980s onwards, has been one of progressive repression by the central Chinese government — a long-running campaign to suppress their culture, religion and independent identity.
Under Xi Jinping, that repression has accelerated dramatically. Since around 2017, it’s ramped up into what has been quite accurately described as a genocide:
Well over a million Uyghur people have been detained in detention centres and “retraining” camps.
Many have been moved to other parts of China.
Their entire society has essentially been torn apart.
They live under extraordinarily repressive conditions. There has been some international attention, but unfortunately, it hasn’t led to meaningful improvements.
Karen:
I first became aware of the Uyghurs through Sophie McNeill’s Four Corners documentary, which really helped many of us understand who the Uyghurs are and what has been happening in Xinjiang.
Sadam, I’ve actually been near that part of the world — trekking in the Altai Mountains in Mongolia — so I’ve seen how remote these areas are. But your experience is, of course, far deeper.
Can you share a bit about your background and your personal journey?
Sadam’s Story Begins
Sadam:
My name is Sadam Abdusalam. I was born in Ürümqi, the capital city of Xinjiang. I was born and raised there until I was 18 years old. I came to Australia in 2009, when I was 18.
Karen:
And in the book, there’s this beautiful moment where a photo changes everything. You saw a photo that drew you back to your homeland, didn’t you?
Sadam:
Yes. In 2015, I saw a photo of a woman — Nadila, who is now my wife. One of my friends posted a photo of her on Instagram, and I just thought she was so beautiful. I wanted to know who she was, get her number… and that’s how we started talking.
I wanted to see her in person. That’s why I went back in 2015.
Returning to Xinjiang
Karen:
What was it like going back? Had it changed much since you’d left?
Sadam:
It was totally different.
When I left in 2009, it was one thing. But in 2015, there were cameras everywhere, checkpoints, police checking IDs and passports. They even checked people’s phones.
My phone was seized by the police a couple of times because I had WhatsApp and Instagram installed. I don’t know how they knew, but they called me to the police station and demanded I come in.
The thing that shocked me was that the local people were already used to it. They didn’t complain — they just did whatever the government told them.
But for someone like me, coming from Australia — a free country — it was shocking. Having your phone checked, your apps checked, your every move watched… it makes you really uncomfortable.
Karen:
And what about your friends? Did they seem different?
Sadam:
Yes.
I left at the beginning of 2009. Later that year, in July 2009, there was a big protest. Many of my friends were taken by police, a lot of things happened, and the government cut off the internet for weeks.
When I went back in 2015 and tried to ask my friends what happened in 2009, they didn’t want to talk. They shut down the conversation, changed the subject, looked around like they were afraid someone was listening.
Some of my friends didn’t want to meet me at all — because I was living overseas and they were scared that being seen with me could put them in danger.
It was horrible. Just to have a conversation with someone you know, and they’re afraid it might get them arrested.
Karen:
It must have been very strange — especially having lived in Australia by then — to feel that level of fear around simply talking.
Sadam:
Yes. Later, when I was driving Uber in Sydney, I would tell passengers some of these stories and they didn’t believe me. They thought I was making it up. They’d say, “How is this possible in the 21st century?”
I don’t blame them — it sounds unbelievable if you’ve never seen it.
Michael on the Level of Control
Karen:
Michael, for those of us here in Australia, it’s hard to grasp this kind of control. How extreme is it?
Michael:
It’s an incredibly extreme example of a surveillance state.
In Xinjiang:
Passports have effectively been confiscated.
People are subject to constant police checks every time they leave their homes.
There are strict laws governing religious practice, even what people can name their children or what they can wear.
All electronic communications and social media are monitored.
It’s a police-state existence, with the very real threat of arrest, detention, and disappearance.
From an Australian perspective, it’s almost impossible to imagine.
Separations, Visas and Fear
Karen:
Sadam, in the book you describe moving around — going to the US, then Turkey, then back to Australia. You married Nadila, and she later returned to Xinjiang while you came back here.
Can you talk us through that?
Sadam:
After we married, we spent time in the United States, where my older sister lives, then moved to Turkey. While we were in Turkey, Nadila became pregnant with our son, Lutfi.
But it was very hard living in Turkey at that time — the economy was struggling, work was hard to find, money was tight, and she was homesick.
We decided I would return to Australia to sort out my things, earn money and apply for a visa for her. The idea was that she would go back to Xinjiang to stay with her parents until the visa came through, and I would go back before or just after the baby was born.
We had no idea that once she went back, the situation in Xinjiang would deteriorate so quickly. Within weeks of her return, the government started confiscating passports — including hers.
I didn’t know then that it would be the last time I’d see her in person for years.
Karen:
You tried to get back there, didn’t you?
Sadam:
Yes. I tried to get a visa to go back to China, but my visa application was rejected several times by the Chinese embassy.
At the same time, things in Xinjiang kept getting worse. Even Australian and Canadian citizens were being detained. So going back became not only difficult, but dangerous.
I was constantly worried — especially when we heard news of concentration camps, forced labour, people disappearing. My dad’s cousin and my uncle went missing.
Anyone who’d been to Turkey, Saudi Arabia or other Muslim countries was at huge risk. My friend Almas’s wife was sentenced to seven and a half years in prison just for studying in Saudi Arabia, and they lost a baby while she was in custody.
Every week brought more bad news, and I struggled mentally. It was hard to focus at work. I was terrified something would happen to Nadila.
The “Angels” and the First Steps of Hope
Karen:
In the book you talk about four angels. Who was the first?
Sadam:
The first angel was Sarah — Sarah Ruby.
She was the first person who really tried to help me. She’d say, “Don’t worry, I’m going to make sure your wife and son get here.” She was so positive. Every time I went to see her, I felt better.
I called her Aunty Sarah.
Inside, I knew it wouldn’t be easy to get my wife and son out from under the Chinese government’s control, but she kept giving me that energy, that hope.
And she introduced me to Michael.
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Michael Takes on the Case
Karen:
So Michael, as a human rights lawyer, you met Sadam through Sarah. Did you understand the enormity of the case when it first came to you?
Michael:
I’d known Sarah for a while. She has a talent for collecting “hopeless cases” and bringing them to people like me.
When she told me about Sadam’s situation, I connected with it on a human level immediately — how could you not? But my initial reaction was: “This is hopeless. I don’t know what we can do.”
I actually said no at first. I didn’t think there was anything practical we could do to help.
But Sarah is very persuasive.
When I met Sadam, Nadila was stuck in Xinjiang. Their baby Lutfi was about 9 or 10 months old. After he was born, she had already been detained by Chinese police because she’d travelled to Turkey — which, under their laws, automatically made her a “terrorist”.
Ordinarily, she would have been taken to a camp and possibly disappeared. But because she was breastfeeding, they allowed her to stay at home — with the threat that once Lutfi turned one, she’d be taken again and he would be adopted out into the system.
Sadam and Sarah had been trying to get Australian citizenship for Lutfi, because Sadam is an Australian citizen, so Lutfi was entitled by descent. But the Australian Department of Immigration rejected it, saying Sadam couldn’t prove paternity.
So the case was stuck in this bureaucratic nightmare.
I agreed to take on that part — to fight for Lutfi’s citizenship — because it was clearly wrong. Once we had that, at least the Australian government would have some responsibility for him.
We went to court, and we won. Lutfi was recognised as an Australian citizen. That gave us a hook — a way to push further.
Building Political and Media Pressure
Michael:
After that, we turned to the political side.
That’s when Sophie McNeill became involved and started working on what became the Four Corners story. Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch also joined in.
We began pulling together a coalition to build a political and media strategy:
Pressure on the Australian government
Which would, in turn, put pressure on the Chinese government
We didn’t have many legal avenues left — so it became about public and political will.
We had one very powerful symbol: a very cute Australian baby trapped in China. Nobody can look at Lutfi’s photo and not want to help him.
We went to Canberra with Amnesty; Craig Foster came on board and used his platform to amplify the story. We knocked on every door we could.
Credit where it’s due — then Foreign Minister Marise Payne took a personal interest in the case. We’ll never know the full details of what happened diplomatically, but I’m certain she worked very hard behind the scenes.
Sophie, the Third Angel
Karen:
So there really was an entire army out there helping.
Sadam, in the book your third angel is Sophie. She did an incredible job bringing the Uyghur story to light. What made her different?
Sadam:
I met many journalists who wanted to tell my story, but Sophie was different. It wasn’t just about getting a good story — she really cared about what change the story might create.
The first time I showed my real face on camera was with Sophie. It was a dangerous decision — going public put Nadila at greater risk — but I felt that if anyone could genuinely help, it would be Sophie.
And Michael told me: If anyone’s going to get the attention of governments and the public, Four Corners will.
Enter Sue – The Fourth Angel
Karen:
Then we come to the moment when the Chinese authorities finally give permission for Nadila and Lutfi to leave. That’s not the end of the struggle — that’s almost the beginning of a new one.
Sadam, it was during COVID, wasn’t it? Flights, restrictions, borders… and this is where your fourth angel, Sue, comes in.
Sadam:
Yes. It was during COVID, when flight options were very limited and tickets were very expensive. Chinese nationals couldn’t easily leave China, especially not directly to Australia.
That’s when I met Sue, through Sophie. She’s my fourth angel. She stitched the whole travel plan together.
Sue’s Side of the Flight Ordeal
Karen:
Sue, you’d worked with SBS and Dateline organising travel into and out of war zones, so Sophie knew what you were capable of. How did this particular mission land on your desk?
Sue:
Sophie and I met through SBS. I used to organise logistics for reporters going into places like Afghanistan and Iraq — very dangerous, very complex trips.
In 2020 she called and said, “I’ve got a story for you. You’ve got two weeks.”
Once she explained, I thought: holy heck. Two weeks to get a Uyghur woman and her toddler out of China, in the middle of COVID, with constantly changing border and airline restrictions.
At that time:
Chinese nationals were being refused by many countries.
Airlines had very strict rules about who they would carry and via which hubs.
I couldn’t send them through Taipei, Thailand or Japan.
Singapore was overloaded and flights to Australia had strict arrival quotas.
I initially built a route via northern China through Hong Kong and then into New Zealand as a back door, but airline and airport regulations blew that plan up at the last minute. That was heartbreaking — we thought we had it solved.
Everything was changing daily. Aircraft were being pulled from routes, schedules were constantly being altered, visa rules and COVID rules were different everywhere.
Eventually, I worked out a route via Papua New Guinea. It was long, gruelling, and she’d have to do two weeks of quarantine in Brisbane on top of the journey. But it was a path.
We were all on edge — tracking flights, watching for last-minute cancellations. At one point there was a transit problem in Shanghai and she wasn’t allowed to leave the airport. That’s where Michael and DFAT came in, doing what they could diplomatically.
We were texting, calling, refreshing flight trackers… it really was like a countdown. When the plane finally touched down in Brisbane, I can’t tell you the relief.
The Reunion
Karen:
Sadam, after three long years, knowing that Nadila and Lutfi were safe in Brisbane — what did that feel like?
Sadam:
I felt… relieved. Properly relieved for the first time in years.
When they arrived in Brisbane, I knew it was real. There were definitely tears — even now, when I think about it, I still get emotional.
Karen:
Tell us about the moment you saw them again in Sydney.
Sadam:
When she arrived in Brisbane, I was so happy — but then she had two weeks of quarantine. We thought we’d meet again in Sydney with Michael at the airport.
I was terrified. We’d been talking for three years on the phone, but never really freely — her phone was monitored. I’d never met my son.
I went to a toy shop to buy a present for Lutfi, and I realised: I don’t know what he likes. He was three years old and I didn’t know his favourite toy.
At the airport with Michael next to me, I was so nervous I didn’t hear a word he said. I honestly thought about running away.
Karen:
Michael, did you notice he’d stopped hearing you completely?
Michael:
Oh yes. He was radiating nervous energy.
It’s hard to imagine meeting your own child for the first time at the age of three. His entire focus for three and a half years had been this one goal. Suddenly, in that moment, it was about to become real — and then what?
When they finally walked out, it was awkward and strange and beautiful all at once. We collected the bags, got a taxi into the city.
Lutfi is absolutely delightful — he got over his nerves much faster than Sadam did!
The next day they came into our office for morning tea so the staff could meet them. Lutfi walked into this law firm in a foreign country where he didn’t speak a word of the language and just… took over.
Very quickly, it started to feel almost ordinary: a young family with a young child. And yet the journey to get there was anything but ordinary.
Nadila’s Adjustment and Trauma
Karen:
How did Nadila adjust to life in Australia?
Sadam:
At first, it was very hard. Different language, different culture, different food — but more than that, she had been through a lot of trauma.
She was scared. She often felt like someone was following her.
If she saw a police car, or heard a siren, it triggered memories. That’s what life was like in Xinjiang — constant fear of police. It took a couple of months before she began to feel safe.
I think it’s like PTSD.
Michael:
Yes, absolutely.
At the height of our public campaign, when Sadam bravely went public with his name and family, Nadila was detained multiple times — I think eight times in six days. She was constantly being taken in, interrogated, harassed.
That kind of sustained fear leaves deep marks.
Life Now
Karen:
And now, your family has grown!
Sadam:
Yes. We now have three boys:
Lutfi, the eldest
Latif, who’s two
And our youngest, who just turned four months
Life is very busy — but in a good way.
Messages of Hope
Karen:
I think this whole story is an incredible testament to hope — but the journey to get there was unbelievably tough.
I’d love to encourage listeners to read Freeing My Family because what we’ve talked about today is only a small part of the story.
Sadam, what message of hope would you share with others facing big challenges?
Sadam:
I’d say: don’t give up.
If you’re born in a country like Australia, you’re already incredibly lucky. Appreciate every little thing you have.
My dad used to say:
When you study, compare yourself with the good students.
In life, compare yourself with those who have less.
Even during those three and a half years, when I felt suicidal or wanted to give up, I would remind myself: there are people worse off than me. Some can’t even put food on the table.
I thought seeing my wife again was just a dream — but it actually happened.
So: don’t give up. Even bad times don’t last forever.
Karen:
Michael, what about you? A message of hope from your perspective?
Michael:
For me, this journey taught me that even the most hopeless-seeming situation isn’t necessarily hopeless.
It was Sadam’s belief that carried this through. His hope was contagious — it’s why so many people stepped in. We were all drawn into that belief and given the chance to play a part.
I count this as the most rewarding experience of my career. I feel very fortunate to have been part of it.
Karen:
And Sue, for you?
Sue:
For me, this story came at a time when the travel industry was on its knees. Many of us felt like we weren’t needed anymore.
This mission reminded me that what we do still matters. We can solve complex problems, we can help reunite families.
It gave me hope, too.
Closing Reflections
Karen:
Sadam, I hope life here in Australia is filled with joy and love for you, Nadila, and your three beautiful boys. You all deserve that.
I’ll put a link on my website to the book Freeing My Family for anyone who wants to dive deeper into this story. Please, if you read it, leave a comment on the website — I’d love to hear your reflections.
Wouldn’t the world be a kinder place if we all respected one another’s right to live in peace?
Last night I was lying in bed thinking about John Lennon and his song Imagine:
Imagine all the people living life in peace…
Imagine all the people sharing all the world…
You may say I’m a dreamer, but I’m not the only one.
I hope someday you’ll join us, and the world will live as one.
Beautiful words that feel very close to this story.
Michael Bradley, Sadam Abdusalam, and Susan Barton — thank you so much for allowing me to share this story.
Sadam, you are a very brave man. And I think Nadila is even braver. You went through hell here; she went through a much bigger hell there.
Stay safe, and thank you all for this time together.
Guests:
Thank you. / Thanks for having us. / Thank you very much.
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