Gunter Swoboda: What I Have Learned Along The Way | Sharing Stories Changing Lives
As an expert in the field of psychology and a seasoned author, Gunter shares valuable insights drawn from his rich journey. From his personal journey to the privilege of working closely with men, this episode promises a deep dive into the fascinating world of psychology and the transformative power of self-discovery.
Dive Deeper: The Full Conversation with Gunter Swoboda
The Core Story
As an expert in the field of psychology and a seasoned author, Gunter shares valuable insights drawn from his rich journey. Gunter's journey is nothing short of extraordinary—from leaving Austria at the age of 12 to embarking on a career that has been dedicated to understanding and working with men and boys.With a wealth of experience, Gunter has become a leading voice in the exploration of masculinity. His notable work, "Making Good Men Great: Surfing the New Wave of Masculinity," delves into the intricacies of navigating the evolving landscape of what it means to be a man in today's world. Join us as Gunter shares his insights, wisdom, and the invaluable lessons he has gathered along the way. From his personal journey to the privilege of working closely with men, this episode promises a deep dive into the fascinating world of psychology and the transformative power of self-discovery. Stay tuned for an enriching conversation with Gunter Swoboda.
Time-Stamped Breakthrough Moments
Gunter Swoboda, author of Making Good Men Great, discusses the "New Wave of Masculinity." He challenges the term "toxic masculinity," preferring to look at the rigid ideologies that harm both men and women.
Gunter shares practical life lessons on "stickability," the danger of catastrophic thinking, and why he believes the modern world is losing its grip on wisdom. Whether he’s talking about the "flow state" found in music and surfing or the emotional language needed to raise resilient boys, Gunter’s perspective is grounded, accessible, and deeply transformative.
Time-Stamped Breakthrough Moments 💡
[00:04:10] – Migration Shock: Moving from Vienna to Australia and the "love at first sight" moment with the ocean.
[00:07:30] – The Lesson of Stickability: How learning English as a 12-year-old taught Gunter that almost anything is possible if you stay with it.
[00:11:15] – The Accidental Psychologist: How a mate’s nap in a university lecture hall changed Gunter's career path forever.
[00:14:40] – The Reconnaissance Unit: Why men need to stop trying to do everything alone and finally learn to ask for help.
[00:18:20] – Redefining Masculinity: Lessons from working with Vietnam veterans and the harm of psychological rigidity.
[00:22:00] – The 80s Stay-at-Home Dad: Gunter’s experience as a primary caregiver and the gender expectations he faced.
[00:27:50] – Accessible Psychology: Why Gunter hates academic jargon and his rule for explaining complex topics simply.
[00:32:10] – The Flow State: How surfing and music teach us that overthinking kills creativity and performance.
[00:36:45] – Parenting Boys: Three essential pieces of advice for raising emotionally intelligent sons in the age of social media.
Full Episode Transcript
Karen:
I’d like to acknowledge the Guringai people and pay my respects to Elders past and present. The Guringai people are the traditional owners of the land where we meet today.
Have you ever taken a moment to reflect on what you've learned along the way?
Joining us today is Gunter Swoboda — psychologist, author, speaker, and a man who has devoted decades to working with men and boys.
Welcome to Sharing Stories, Changing Lives. I’m your host, Karen Sander. On this platform, I have the privilege of interviewing individuals from all walks of life, each with powerful stories that remind us of the magic of storytelling. To learn more, visit storyroomglobal.com and explore the private membership area, The Backstage Pass.
One of Gunter’s most notable works is Making Good Men Great: Surfing the New Wave of Masculinity. He also produced the thought-provoking social documentary Masculinity That Inspires Change, exploring the evolution of manhood in the 21st century.
With experience spanning psychotherapy, counselling, coaching, speaking, writing, and men’s program development — plus a deep love of surfing and music — he brings a wonderfully unique perspective.
So welcome, Gunter.
Early Life & the Ocean
Karen:
Let’s dive right in. You have such a unique lens as a psychologist, author, speaker, and surfer. Can you share your career journey and some of the psychological realms that bring you most satisfaction?
Gunter:
That’s a big topic! I probably need to start with my migration experience. Coming from landlocked Austria — Vienna, to be exact — the ocean wasn’t part of my world. Then at 12, my parents suddenly uprooted me: “We’re going to Australia.”
Massive shock.
Friends took us to the beach soon after we arrived. I saw the ocean… and it was love at first sight. It was July — freezing — and I still went in.
Schooling was hard because I spoke no English. That taught me my first lifelong lesson:
Almost anything is possible if you stick with it.
Stickability has carried me through everything.
I wanted to be a marine biologist — perfect for a budding surfer — and I was also playing music. But people kept saying there were no jobs in marine biology, and no money in music unless you were at the top.
A career counsellor told me, “No jobs in marine biology. Pick something else.”
But I had no backup plan.
What I did have was curiosity… and I read widely: religion, philosophy, counterculture, spirituality. I was fascinated.
I didn’t pick up my HSC because I assumed I’d failed. Later I realised I actually hadn’t done too badly. Huge lesson there for boys and men:
We often assume disaster without gathering the facts.
Fast-forward: I wound up working in a bank for two years — which cut into my surfing terribly. Then a mate dragged me to a university lecture: “Come with me, then we’ll surf.” He fell asleep in 10 minutes.
But I was captivated.
It was an introduction to psychology lecture.
I walked out thinking: How do I get in?
Long story short: I went back, did a one-year HSC at Ultimo TAFE, worked like crazy, and got into Macquarie Uni.
And then… the academic advisor told me I couldn’t major in psychology because the course had no statistics.
I’d never asked anyone for help. Big life lesson:
Stop trying to be your own reconnaissance unit — ask for help.
So I survived four years of statistics — terrifying for someone who hated maths. But it taught me something profound:
Anxiety is often just catastrophic thinking… but the body reacts as though we’re in danger.
Zen Buddhism helped me enormously: mindfulness, breath work, staying present in the “mud”, so to speak.
Working With Men & Masculinity
Karen:
You’ve worked extensively with men and boys. What have you learned about your own masculinity that shaped your therapeutic approach?
Gunter:
I grew up with a strong mother — a World War II survivor. In hindsight, she had PTSD. So I didn’t grow up with traditional gender stereotypes.
Working with Vietnam vets — men with physical, psychological, and moral injuries — taught me how rigid masculine socialisation harms men.
We teach boys that being flexible is “unmanly”.
But psychological treatment is all about flexibility.
Catastrophising, rumination, rigidity — these become addictive patterns.
Then I became a father and again learned how gender expectations play out. I was a primary caregiver in the 80s — unusual at the time. Some women were supportive; others challenged me harshly. That opened my eyes to how both genders reinforce harmful norms.
I don’t like the term “toxic masculinity.”
I prefer to focus on the ideology of patriarchy — because that harms both men and women.
By the early 2000s I realised:
Many mental health issues are rooted not in biology, but in socialisation.
Podcasting, Philosophy & Making Knowledge Accessible
Karen:
I listened to a couple of your podcast episodes — ADHD and generalised anxiety. You make complex topics very accessible. What lessons from your life resonated most with audiences?
Gunter:
I’ve always disliked inaccessible academic language. Philosophy and psychology sometimes sound like they’re trying to exclude people.
My rule:
If I can’t explain it simply, I need to rethink what I know.
The downside of accessible psychology is that people self-diagnose via Dr Google. But overall, I want people to rethink ideas with clarity and simplicity.
A favourite podcast of mine explores the journey from data to wisdom. David Attenborough said humans succeeded because of intelligence — but what we need now is wisdom.
I genuinely fear we’re losing wisdom.
Empathy, Trauma & Therapeutic Growth
Karen:
Empathy is so important in therapy. Can you share a personal struggle that shaped you as a psychotherapist?
Gunter:
Absolutely. I wrote a blog years ago: Empathy Can Be Taught.
Traditional male socialisation suppresses empathy — because you can’t compete fiercely if you feel too much.
But I was fortunate. Empathy was nurtured in my family. It was essential because my parents had trauma. This taught me early how to put myself in others’ shoes — and how to use that skill therapeutically.
Neuroscience & Behaviour
Karen:
What personal experience shifted how you view neuroscience in understanding behaviour?
Gunter:
When I couldn’t get work as a psychologist during a recession, I became an enrolled nurse in aged care. Working with dementia patients taught me patience, perspective, and reality-flexibility.
Back then, neuroscience barely existed. But with MRIs, PET scans, and more, we can now see brain activity behind psychological interventions. I love how psychology and neuroscience now support each other.
A neuroscientist friend and I are writing a book blowing up gender myths from both science and psychology. The amount of mythology out there is staggering.
Surfing, Music & Flow
Karen:
You love surfing and music. What profound lessons have these given you?
Gunter:
Two big ones:
Repetition matters.
Skill comes from practice, not talent.Flow matters.
Overthinking kills creativity — in music, surfing, and life.
We need more flow in our lives. Many people live like everything is performance-based.
Parenting Boys
Karen:
What advice do you have for parents raising boys?
Gunter:
Three things:
Don’t under-nurture — but don’t over-nurture.
Give them emotional language.
“Don’t cry” reinforces harmful rigidity.Teach boundaries and consequences, not perfectionism.
Homework battles? Often pointless.
Status anxiety is epidemic — social media has amplified it. Parents need to help kids live life as themselves, not as a performance.
Finding Gunter & What’s Next
Karen:
How can people find you, and what’s coming up?
Gunter:
Google me — I tend to pop up quickly!
My websites are:
gunterswoboda.com
makinggoodmengreat.com
I currently have an eight-week waitlist.
I’ve also been approached by two anthropologists to join a research program, possibly leading to a PhD. I’m excited — and yes, I had cold feet the next morning!
I’m passionate about character formation — virtues, ethics, and how these link to well-being. We’re losing empathy, virtue, and ethics in society, and we need to reclaim them.
Closing
Karen:
Gunter, it’s been wonderful having you on the program. You’ve spoken at The Story Room, and that live storytelling energy is the heartbeat of this podcast — Sharing Stories, Changing Lives.
Your insights are powerful, your wisdom refreshing, and your work with men and boys transformative.
If you’d like to purchase Gunter’s book Making Good Men Great, you’ll find it on Amazon.
To learn more or share your own inspirational story, visit storyroomglobal.com.
Before we close, here’s an anonymous quote that sums up today beautifully:
“Celebrate the lessons learned along the way — for they become the stepping stones of wisdom that guide your journey.”
Thank you for tuning in.
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